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This is freedom in its modern, secular form. Note that what interests us about such individuals is not any moral purpose which they invariably lack anyway , but simply the energy and self-determination and often ruthlessness that they exhibit. Such characters must have an internal richness revealed through imagination and language and not just be one-dimensional, but their main appeal is their formal freedom to commit themselves to a course of action, even at the cost of their own lives.
These characters do not constitute moral or political ideals, but they are the appropriate objects of modern, romantic art whose task is to depict freedom even in its most secular and amoral forms. After meeting Romeo, Hegel remarks, Juliet suddenly opens up with love like a rosebud, full of childlike naivety. Her beauty thus lies in being the embodiment of love. One should note that the development of romantic art, as Hegel describes it, involves the increasing secularization and humanization of art.
With the Reformation, however, religion turned inward and found God to be present in faith alone , not in the icons and images of art. Furthermore, art itself was released from its close ties to religion and allowed to become fully secular.
Art satisfied our highest needs when it formed an integral part of our religious life and revealed to us the nature of the divine and, as in Greece, the true character of our fundamental ethical obligations. In the modern, post-Reformation world, however, art has been released or has emancipated itself from subservience to religion. This does not mean that art now has no role to play and that it provides no satisfaction at all.
Yet art in modernity continues to perform the significant function of giving visible and audible expression to our distinctively human freedom and to our understanding of ourselves in all our finite humanity.
His view is, rather, that art plays or at least should play a more limited role now than it did in ancient Greece or in the Middle Ages. Yet Hegel does think that art in modernity comes to an end in a certain respect. His view is that such works count as genuine works of art only when they do more than merely imitate nature.
The naturalistic and prosaic works that best meet this criterion, he maintains, are the paintings of the sixteenth- and seventeenth-century Dutch masters. In such works, Hegel claims, the painter does not aim simply to show us what grapes, flowers or trees look like: we know that already from nature. Often, indeed, the painter seeks to delight us specifically with the animated play of the colors of gold, silver, velvet or fur.
A genuine work of art is the sensuous expression of divine or human freedom and life. Paintings that are no more than prosaic, naturalistic depictions of everyday objects or human activity would thus appear to fall short of genuine art.
The paintings of such artists may lack the classical beauty of Greek art, but they exhibit magnificently the subtle beauties and delights of everyday modern life. A much more overt expression of subjectivity is found by Hegel in works of modern humor. In this respect, Hegel does after all proclaim that art comes to an end in modernity.
As was noted above, however, this does not mean that art as a whole comes to an end in the early nineteenth century. For Hegel, the distinctive character of genuine art in contemporary and future modernity—and thus of genuinely modern art—is twofold. On the one hand, it remains bound to give expression to concrete human life and freedom; on the other hand, it is no longer restricted to any of the three art-forms.
That is to say, it does not have to observe the proprieties of classical art or explore the intense emotional inwardness or heroic freedom or comfortable ordinariness that we find in romantic art. Modern art, for Hegel, can draw on features of any of the art-forms including symbolic art in its presentation of human life. Indeed, it can also present human life and freedom indirectly through the depiction of nature.
The focus of modern art, therefore, does not have to be on one particular conception of human freedom rather than another. For this reason, there is little that Hegel can say about the path that art should take in the future; that is for artists to decide.
There is reason to suspect, however, that Hegel might not have welcomed many of the developments in post-Hegelian art. This is due to the fact that, although he does not lay down any rules that are to govern modern art, he does identify certain conditions that should be met if modern art is to be genuine art.
Robert Pippin takes a different view on this last point; see Pippin From his point of view, however, he was trying to understand what conditions would have to be met for works of art to be genuine works of art and genuinely modern. The conditions that Hegel identified—namely that art should present the richness of human freedom and life and should allow us to feel at home in its depictions—are ones that many modern artists for example, Impressionists such as Monet, Sisley and Pissarro have felt no trouble in meeting.
For others, these conditions are simply too restrictive. They have thus taken modern art in a direction in which, from a Hegelian perspective, it has ceased to be art in the true sense any longer.
Each art has a distinctive character and exhibits a certain affinity with one or more of the art-forms. Hegel does not provide an exhaustive account of all recognized arts he says little, for example, about dance and nothing, obviously, about cinema , but he examines the five arts that he thinks are made Pinnacle Wood Turning Tools Install necessary by the very concept of art itself. Art, we recall, is the sensuous expression of divine and human freedom. If it is to demonstrate that spirit is indeed free, it must show that spirit is free in relation to that which is itself unfree, spiritless and lifeless—that is, three-dimensional, inorganic matter, weighed down by gravity.
The art that gives heavy matter the explicit form of spiritual freedom—and so works stone and metal into the shape of a human being or a god—is sculpture. Architecture, by contrast, gives matter an abstract, inorganic form created by human understanding. In so doing architecture turns matter not into the direct sensuous expression of spiritual freedom, but into an artificially and artfully shaped surrounding for the direct expression of spiritual freedom in sculpture.
The art of architecture fulfills its purpose, therefore, when it creates classical temples to house statues of the gods VPK , The constructions that fall into this category do not house or surround individual sculptures, like classical Greek temples, but are themselves partly sculptural and partly architectural.
They are works of architectural sculpture or sculptural architecture. Such constructions are sculptural in so far as they are built for their own sake and do not serve to shelter or enclose something else. They are works of architecture, however, in so far as they are overtly heavy and massive and lack the animation of sculpture.
They are also sometimes arranged in rows, like columns, with no distinctive individuality. They were not built simply to provide shelter or security for people like a house or a castle , but are works of symbolic art.
Pyramids thus remain works of symbolic art that point to a hidden meaning buried within them. Indeed, as was noted above, Hegel claims that the pyramid is the image or symbol of symbolic art itself Aesthetics , 1: The epitome of symbolic art is symbolic architecture specifically, the pyramids.
Architecture itself, however, comes into its own only with the emergence of classical art: for it is only in the classical period that architecture provides the surrounding for, and so becomes the servant of, a sculpture that is itself the embodiment of free spirit.
Hegel has much to say about the proper form of such a surrounding. The main point is this: spiritual freedom is embodied in the sculpture of the god; the house of the god—the temple—is something quite distinct from, and subordinate to, the sculpture it surrounds; the form of that temple should thus also be quite distinct from that of the sculpture.
The temple, therefore, should not mimic the flowing contours of the human body, but should be governed by the abstract principles of regularity, symmetry and harmony.
Hegel also insists that the form of the temple should be determined by the purpose it serves: namely to provide an enclosure and protection for the god VPK , This means that the basic shape of the temple should contain only those features that are needed to fulfill its purpose. It is this latter requirement that makes columns necessary. There is a difference, for Hegel, between the task of bearing the roof and that of enclosing the statue within a given space.
The second task—that of enclosure—is performed by a wall. If the first task is to be clearly distinguished from the second, therefore, it must be performed not by a wall but by a separate feature of the temple. Columns are necessary in a classical temple, according to Hegel, because they perform the distinct task of bearing the roof without forming a wall.
The classical temple is thus the most intelligible of buildings because different functions are carried out in this way by different architectural features and yet are harmonized with one another. Herein, indeed, lies the beauty of such a temple VPK , , In the Gothic cathedral columns are located within, rather than around the outside of, the enclosed space, and their overt function is no longer merely to bear weight but to draw the soul up into the heavens.
Consequently, the columns or pillars do not come to a definite end in a capital on which rests the architrave of the classical temple , but continue up until they meet to form a pointed arch or a vaulted roof. Hegel considers a relatively small range of buildings: he says almost nothing, for example, about secular buildings. One should bear in mind, however, that he is interested in architecture only in so far as it is an art, not in so far as it provides us with protection and security in our everyday lives.
Yet it should also be noted that architecture, as Hegel describes it, falls short of genuine art, as he defines it, since it is never the direct sensuous expression of spiritual freedom itself in the manner of sculpture see Aesthetics , 2: In no case is architecture the explicit manifestation or embodiment of free spirituality itself.
This does not, however, make architecture any less necessary as a part of our aesthetic and religious life. In contrast to architecture, sculpture works heavy matter into the concrete expression of spiritual freedom by giving it the shape of the human being.
The high point of sculpture, for Hegel, was achieved in classical Greece. In Egyptian sculpture the figures often stand firm with one foot placed before the other and the arms held tightly by the side of the body, giving the figures a rather rigid, lifeless appearance.
By contrast, the idealized statues of the gods created by Greek sculptors, such as Phidias and Praxiteles, are clearly alive and animated, even when the gods are depicted at rest. Indeed, Greek sculpture, according to Hegel, embodies the purest beauty of which art itself is capable. Hegel was well aware that Greek statues were often painted in quite a gaudy manner. He claims, however, that sculpture expresses spiritual freedom and vitality in the three-dimensional shape of the figure, rather than in the color that has been applied to it.
In painting, by contrast, it is color above all that is the medium of expression. The point of painting, for Hegel, is not to show us what it is for free spirit to be fully embodied. It is to show us only what free spirit looks like , how it manifests itself to the eye.
The images of painting thus lack the three-dimensionality of sculpture, but they add the detail and specificity provided by color. This is because the absence of bodily solidity and the presence of color allow the more inward spirituality of the Christian world to manifest itself as such. Painting, however, is also able—unlike sculpture—to set divine and human spirit in relation to its external environment: it is able to include within the painted image itself the natural landscape and the architecture by which Christ, the Virgin Mary, the saints or secular figures are surrounded Aesthetics , 2: Indeed, Hegel argues that painting—in contrast to sculpture, which excels in presenting independent, free-standing individuals—is altogether more suited to showing human beings in their relations both to their environment and to one another: hence the prominence in painting of, for example, depictions of the love between the Virgin Mary and the Christ child.
It, too, comes into its own in the period of romantic art. Like sculpture and painting, but unlike architecture, music gives direct expression to free subjectivity. Yet music goes even further in the direction of expressing the inwardness of subjectivity by dropping the dimensions of space altogether.
It thus gives no enduring visual expression to such subjectivity, but expresses the latter in the organized succession of vanishing sounds. Music is thus not just a sequence of sounds for its own sake, but is the structured expression in sounds of inner subjectivity.
Through rhythm, harmony and melody music allows the soul to hear its own inner movement and to be moved in turn by what it hears.
Music expresses, and allows us to hear and enjoy, the movement of the soul in time through difference and dissonance back into its unity with itself. It also expresses, and moves us to, various different feelings , such as love, longing and joy Aesthetics , 2: Hegel notes that music is able to express feelings with especial clarity when it is accompanied by a poetic text, and he had a particular love of both church music and opera.
Interestingly, however, he argues that in such cases it is really the text that serves the music, rather than the other way around, for it is the music above all that expresses the profound movements of the soul Aesthetics , 2: Over and above this expression, however, independent music pursues the purely formal development of themes and harmonies for its own sake.
The danger he sees, however, is that such formal development can become completely detached from the musical expression of inward feeling and subjectivity, and that, as a result, music can cease being a genuine art and become mere artistry. At this point, music no longer moves us to feel anything, but simply engages our abstract understanding.
Hegel admits that he is not as well versed in music as he is in the other arts he discusses. He has a deep appreciation, however, for the music of J. Bach, Handel and Mozart and his analyses of musical rhythm, harmony and melody are highly illuminating. He was familiar with, though critical of, the music of his contemporary Carl Maria von Weber, and he had a particular affection for Rossini Aesthetics , 1: , 2: Surprisingly, he never makes any mention of Beethoven.
The last art that Hegel considers is also an art of sound, but sound understood as the sign of ideas and inner representations—sound as speech. This is the art of poetry Poesie in the broad sense of the term. Poetry is capable of showing spiritual freedom both as concentrated inwardness and as action in space and time.
Poetry, for Hegel, is not simply the structured presentation of ideas, but the articulation of ideas in language, indeed in spoken rather than just written language. Epic poetry presents spiritual freedom—that is, free human beings—in the context of a world of circumstances and events. What they do is thus determined as much by the situation in which they find themselves as by their own will, and the consequences of their actions are to a large degree at the mercy of circumstances.
Epic poetry thus shows us the worldly character—and attendant limitations—of human freedom. This can be done directly or via the poetic description of something else, such as a rose, wine, or another person. Dramatic poetry combines the principles of epic and lyric poetry.
Drama thus presents the—all too often self-destructive—consequences of free human action itself. He has in mind in particular the operas of Gluck and Mozart. In drama as such , by contrast, language is what predominates and music plays a subordinate role and may even be present only in the virtual form of versification.
Drama, for Hegel, does not depict the richness of the epic world or explore the inner world of lyric feeling. It shows characters acting in pursuit of their own will and interest and thereby coming into conflict with other individuals even if, as in the case of Hamlet, after some initial hesitation.
Hegel distinguishes between tragic and comic drama and between classical and romantic versions of each. The tragedy of Oedipus is that he pursues his right to uncover the truth about the murder of Laius without ever considering that he himself might be responsible for the murder or, indeed, that there might be anything about him of which he is unaware Aesthetics , 2: — Greek tragic heroes and heroines are moved to act by the ethical or otherwise justified interest with which they identify, but they act freely in pursuit of that interest.
Tragedy shows how such free action leads to conflict and then to the violent or sometimes peaceful resolution of that conflict. At the close of the drama, Hegel maintains, we are shattered by the fate of the characters at least when the resolution is violent. We are also satisfied by the outcome, because we see that justice has been done. Individuals, whose interests—such as the family and the state—should be in harmony with one another, set those interests in opposition to one another; in so doing, however, they destroy themselves and thereby undo the very opposition they set up.
In modern tragedy—by which Hegel means above all Shakespearean tragedy—characters are moved not by an ethical interest, but by a subjective passion, such as ambition or jealousy. These characters, however, still act freely and destroy themselves through the free pursuit of their passion.
Tragic individuals, therefore—whether ancient or modern—are not brought down by fate but are ultimately responsible for their own demise. In comedy individuals also undermine their own endeavors in some way, but the purposes that animate them are either inherently trivial ones or grand ones which they pursue in a laughably inappropriate way.
In contrast to tragic characters, truly comic figures do not identify themselves seriously with their laughable ends or means. They can thus survive the frustration of their purposes, and often come to laugh at themselves, in a way that tragic figures cannot.
Truly comic figures are found by Hegel in the plays of the ancient Greek dramatist Aristophanes. It is the expression of the unchallenged mastery of wit. Since Hegel does not regard such arbitrary mastery as genuine freedom, he argues that works of ironic humor in which this mastery is exhibited no longer count as genuine works of art. Plays that express such freedom count as genuine works of art.
Yet they are works that show freedom to reside precisely not in the works we undertake but within subjectivity itself, within subjectivity that happily endures the frustration of its laughable aims.
True comedy, therefore, implicitly points beyond art to religion. Comedy thus takes art to its limit: beyond comedy there is no further aesthetic manifestation of freedom, there is only religion and philosophy.
Yet religion provides a more Cnc Wood Turning Tools Llc profound understanding of freedom than art, just as philosophy provides a clearer and more profound understanding of freedom than religion. Beauty, for Hegel, is not just a matter of formal harmony or elegance; it is the sensuous manifestation in stone, color, sound or words of spiritual freedom and life. Such beauty takes a subtly different form in the classical and romantic periods and also in the different individual arts.
In one form or another, however, it remains the purpose of art, even in modernity. These claims by Hegel are normative, not just descriptive, and impose certain restrictions on what can count as genuine art in the modern age.
They are not, however, claims made out of simple conservatism. Hegel is well aware that art can be decorative, can promote moral and political goals, can explore the depths of human alienation or simply record the prosaic details of everyday life, and that it can do so with considerable artistry. His concern, however, is that art that does these things without giving us beauty fails to afford us the aesthetic experience of freedom.
In so doing, it deprives us of a central dimension of a truly human life. Adorno, Theodor W. Houlgate warwick. Kant, Schiller and Hegel on Beauty and Freedom 5. Art and Idealization 6. Art and Idealization Art, for Hegel, is essentially figurative.
The three basic forms of poetry identified by Hegel are epic, lyric and dramatic poetry. Moldenhauer and K. Michel, 20 vols. Miller, Oxford: Clarendon Press, see —7 [pars.
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Engelhardt, Jr. Pinkard, Dordrecht: Kluwer, 79— Bates, Jennifer A. Harris , eds. Baur and J. Russon, Toronto: University of Toronto Press, 93— Bird-Pollan, Stefan, and Marchenkov, Vladimir eds. Art in Modern Society , London: Bloomsbury. Bungay, Stephen, , Beauty and Truth. Lucas Jr. Hegel , ed. Danto, Arthur C. Wellbery and J. Ryan, Cambridge, Mass. Russon, Toronto: University of Toronto Press, — Questions of Memory in Hegel and Heidegger , eds.
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Dahlstrom, Washington, D. Harris, H. Amacher and V. Lange, trans. Wilson et al. Inwood, Oxford: Oxford University Press, — Boyle and L. Jamme and I. Sandkaulen, Berlin: De Gruyter, — Kain, Philip J.
Kaminsky, Jack, , Hegel on Art. Kottman, Paul A. Maker, William ed. Moland, Lydia L. Pippin, Robert B. Houlgate, Evanston, Ill. Axl: Yeah, absolutely. Trunk: And you also have Brian May on the record right? Axl: I don't know if he'll actually be on the album. This hasn't been completely decided. Trunk: Cuz I read a quote from him, he said: "Yeah, I recorded that a long time ago.
But that's still on the demo of the song. Trunk: Right, and that's when I'm gonna ask you about the leaks. Not only what happened here years ago, but also recently, which I have nothing to do with Axl: I haven't listened to the leaks, so I don't know Trunk: Are they actually songs? Is it stuff Was it music that's gonna be on the record, or is it old stuff that's not even been used, do you know? Axl: No, it's stuff that's gonna be on the record.
Except, it's still debatable like So, there's still stuff that's gonna bounce between one and two. Trunk: How long is the record gonna be? Is it like 2 CDs? Axl: No, it'll be a regular CD. Trunk: One CD. And since you're here, and there's so many rumors Let me address this one with you. Was there any Axl: kinda tired Weren't you guys doing an interview? Bach: We're all fans man!
Axl: Yeah, I mean, come on Trunk: This is all about you right now! Bach: We're rock fans, man! Trunk: You know what, this is funny Axl, this is the first time everyone in this room has shut up in the last two hours! Bach: Yeah, that's right! Trunk: I couldn't get a word out of Edgewise?? Let me ask you one more question that I want to find out too.
There were some rumours circulating recently that there was talk that you would do or that there was rumblings about possibly doing shows with the original line up of the band and then Axl: No, that's all nonsense. That's just people starting stuff for whatever reason.
They'll hear the leaks, and they'll decide, who wrote the solo, you know because they don't like the guy that's playing it, they'll say someone else wrote it, people make up all kinds of stuff. Trunk: Do you keep up with all that stuff though, or do you roll it off your back? Axl: I have to keep up on it, because, there's a lot of the stuff sometimes you need to shut down, you know Otherwise it would be a lot worse. Trunk: Right.
Dude, I mean, I'm so thrilled that you're here. What do you want to do man? Do you want to play music? Axl: You guys do your thing! Trunk: No, no, this is about you. Bach: Do you want to pick some songs? Trunk: Do you want to take some calls from people? Axl: Noooo Ace of Spades! Axl: Yeah, there you go! Trunk: Do you need anything man? Food, drink, do you need anything at all? Axl: No, I'm good. Brain was in a band called Ted Zeppelin.
Bach: Who was? Axl: Our drummer. Yeah he had a band called Ted Zeppelin. Ian: Let me ask you Axl, we always talk about metal, we just talk about nothing else Priest or Maiden? Bach: Yeaaaahhh! Trunk: Kick some ass! Motorhead's Ace of Spades playing Trunk: Alright, there was Motorhead's Ace of Spades requested by Axl Rose, who's in your studio, yes you heard me right, it's Eddie Trunk, we gotta do a quick break and then we're gonna come right back with more with Axl Rose right after this, please, I know you're not going anywhere Commercials Trunk: Alright, we're back on the air.
Just a bit of a distraction going on back there for a second. Axl's been nice enough after he called in to join us from rehearsal with GN'R rehearsing in New York City, getting ready for shows. No sense of mentioning the shows here in New York, cuz theyre all long sold out, and then you go to Europe, and then, hopefully from there Axl: We'll start doing the fall here. In the States. Trunk: We'll see what happens. Baz, you orchestrated this thing, and you Bach: Axl orchestrated it Trunk: He showed up and you were the catalyst so Axl: I sent a text I didn't what you guys were doing, your thing, I didn't know what was going on, I was just going hey it's time to call Bas Bach: Right on!
Trunk: Axl, can you get up on the mic? I'm sorry Axl: I just knew it was time to call Bas It was like ok 13 years Bach: How do you make that like window? Axl: I don't know Bach: Ok, well I've just got so many great memories of him like Trunk: You guys toured together right? Bach: Yeah, but we also hung out a couple of Everybody has you know this image of him, you know, and me of like this mystique or whatever, and people always say like: "what does that guy like?
We get in the nicest car at that time I've ever seen, some Mercedes or something, I think it was black, or it could have been silver, I can't remember, but this beautiful car, and I'm like, we're driving around Hollywood, and I'm thinking he's gonna put in you know, some music on man, and I don't know what he's gonna put on, cuz, you know I'm intrigued about people's musical tastes Axl: I'm getting scared P laughs Bach singing WASP It's like this guy rocks man!
And then, he's like, OK, Sebastian, I gotta He goes: "I paid bucks for this man! The Mean Man! Trunk: Leave it to the pro wrestler over here, huh Jericho: Its always me Trunk: Axl, were you into a lot of metal growing up? Where you a metal freak like all of us? Axl: Yeah, yeah Trunk: What bands did you love? Like the bands you just worshiped as a kid? Axl: Well, Sabbath Trunk: Yeah, of course.
Now let me ask you this because a lot of people who come in here, like I'm 41, Baz is a couple of years younger, Scotts the same age Axl: Oh, we gotta get into that, great Trunk: Oh no, no, no, I'm not asking you that, I'm just trying to get the time line Axl: Where's my Geritol? Trunk: I'm not asking you like that Axl: I need some ensure Trunk: For me my first Sabbath album was actually Heaven and Hell so I'm wondering where did you come in Sabbath where you into I got Heaven and Hell and than went back, but I mean where you a Dio?
Trunk: Because so many people its surprising they come in, no we started with Dio around 80 and than we went back and learned the other stuff, so Axl: No, no. I had a friend in like 7th or 8th grade who sold all the pot but I didn't smoke pot but I'd go to, like, he had this black room and his dad was a guitar teacher and I'd go sit there and he was actually cool about, he didn't, like, where other people would mess with you if you chose to or not do drugs or whatever you know he didn't, but turned me on to Sabbath you know and Bach: That's cool Trunk: Wow, and what else?
Axl: I don't know, I would listen to about everything, I can't right now trying to figure out what I listened to at the time Trunk: Where you a Kiss fan at all? Cause Baz Axl: I liked the hits that were on the radio, I mean the same car he's talking about I would, like, ride around you know and like sneak up on people at the bus stop, because I had a really loud stereo, sneak up on them at the bus stops and start Dr.
Bach: Yeaaaah, Dr. Love Axl: Dr. Love has always been one of my favorite songs because they played it on AM radio and if you know Gene and you know Gene's world and you think about Gene's world backstage and where his tongue was going, it just, I can't believe they play that song on AM radio back in the day Trunk: Especially the little bridge part You know?
Bach: What about "Christine Sixteen"? Trunk: Right! Ian: What was that about? Bach: What is the middle part? He goes Axl: Yeah, I don't understand the meaning Bach, Best Wood For Turning Tool Handles Tools Trunk: "When I saw you walk out of school that day" Bach: "That day I knew, I knew I've got to have you, I've got to have you" Axl: And he's like twenty something and he's in this beat up car, stoned, cruising the high schools Trunk: Wait the best part about that, here it is Christine Sixteen starts to play Bach: Ooh, its creepy Axl: It is, isn't it Trunk: And the best partt is out of that he goes "She's been around, but she's young and clean" Ian: the best Gene lyric though is in "Going Blind" when he says Ian, Bach: "I'm 93, and you're 16" Ian: 93!
Bach: I know that's perfect, Unintelligible is scaring me in that song Jericho: 63 wasn't bad enough Ian: By the way, Ed Trunk, Gene will be expecting a royalty check for I get three cents on that please.
Payable to Gene Simmons Empires. Trunk: No doubt man. So what do you want to play? Do you want to play some music? Do you want to talk to some people? Do you want to just hang? What do you want to do? Bach: He wanted the Nazareth song Axl: It doesn't matter to me.
It doesn't matter to me. Jericho: Do you have that? Jericho: He's on fire Bach: Nice, he hasn't changed a bit Trunk: Baz, give us one story from when you toured with Guns N' Roses, besides the one you just told.
Anything from the road that you recall? Bach: Well there's many things, you know. There's one thing Axl wasn't afraid to kind of tell it like it is a couple times.
Axl: Or tell it like it wasn't. Bach: Well, I remember when we were doing Slave To the Grind record, I was literally out of my mind you know, partying a little too much in Hollywood and you know Axl called up Doc and Scott and said you gotta get your boy out of Hollywood and Scott's like why and Axl goes "Cause he's gonna die".
Trunk: Did you say it like in "Welcome To the Jungle"? Did you scream "You're gonna die"? Axl: No, but sometimes you all have to watch out for one another Bach: That's right. Bach: And I don't forget that, I never forget that. I'd come here and after about a few couple of weeks we'd be like "W w w we need to get out of here, w w w were gonna die". You know because you're the one who's now the bartender at the hotel.
Axl: We'll he filmed like, you know they eat alot of bugs. Bach: What is it like the Fear Factor show? Axl: Absolutely Trunk: How long ago did you live there? Bach: Did you eat bugs? Axl: Well, I didn't live there, we just went and stayed there a couple of years ago.
Trunk: A couple of years ago. That inspired the name of the album at all? Axl: No it was before that but then I just thought I should go. I wanted to go before they banned me. So, you know, I mean Chinese Democracy that doesn't quite work for the government over there. Bach: Hey, I want to ask you this. What do you think of that jack-off band The Offspring?
Axl: It doesn't mean anything. I mean I'm not saying that they don't mean anything , it just doesn't matter you know? Bach: No, its just, I'm like, Get your own scene dude.
It's like get your own thing Axl: But what I would say is like didn't they have a song for I think the movie Orange County or something? Trunk: I don't know I'm not a fan. Axl: But they had a song that I liked its message and everything and it was like "Well aren't you, you by the stuff you're talking, aren't you going against your own song?
That what I thought was interesting. Trunk: The story was that they tried to take the title of the record or whatever Axl: Yeah, well you know Bach: It didn't work Axl: Every time a lot of people are putting out a record its like ok well let's talk about this Jericho: Do you even listen to that Axl? Do you even care like the speculation in the media and all that do you even pay attention Axl: No, Oh no, not at all never, Um mmm Trunk: None of you guys were obviously at the Madison Square Garden show.
Axl: When have you ever known me to be reactionary? Bach: Dude, the first time I ever met you, we were opening for Aerosmith at the L. Forum and the first knock on the door was David Lee Roth. He goes "Heeey, man Axl: No, he You and I were telling him that he was one of our biggest influences, our biggest inspirations.
First thing is like, we meet and he Trunk: Is that Sebastian or Roth? Axl: Uh, Sebastian, and Bach: He took us out! Bach: I'll never forget this in my life Axl Why are you being such a dick?
Trunk: Baz has a ring tone from Accept? Bach: Yeah Axl: I heard Izzy was I was hanging out with Izzy here in New York and I heard that, uh, he was telling me that Udo's wife wrote all those lyrics.. There was "Jawbreaker" Go on Bach: Oh my god. Just my side of the David Lee Roth thing, he He orders a drink and he's like this "Medic! Axl: I just remember you going "Duuude! Axl: Yeah, I got a letter too Bach Trunk: No we haven't played Van Halen yet.
We can though. Axl: Oh that's because I was listening to your competition, that's right Trunk: Well you know what, you're on this station now, not theirs, so there you go, enough said. Do you want to do that right now? Bach: Yeah, this is one of the songs we did in the Damnocracy band Trunk: Tell Axl about your thing man, he doesn't even know Bach: Well we have Jason Bonham in this band so we did each song by each of us, we did Only by Anthrax.
We didn't know if we should do a Bonham song like Air Race? His other band Ian: Jason didn't want to do a Bonham song. Right, that's a good song for me. So, uh, but we had to get clearance from them, right? So Jason had a meeting with Robert Plant Axl: What do you mean "Its good for your range? Bach: Well its in there. Its in there Axl: I mean that's a pretty big parking space Bach: Awww, thank you, dude, that's nice of you.
Coming from you that's You know the only other time he said that "You gotta hear this guy, his friend Shannon, is when you said that to me. You go "He's got a higher voice than you man. Then I was like cool.
Than I started learning it and the second verse is completely out of time. Coming in, its not on a count, it's a studio flub. So I know he was having a little chuckle, like, have at it. You know what I mean. That was a mistake that they intentionally left. You couldn't even do that now because nobody has analog tape anymore, you know.
Bach: Hey, how do you feel about Pro Tools on lead vocals? Axl: What do you mean? Bach: Like, I mean I just went through this horrible experience doing this album with this guy that like took my lead vocals and like put them and made them so perfect that it was nauseating, like that's the style now of producing lead vocals, like making it so perfect that to me it sucks Axl: I think that there all types of different ways to do it, I mean you can definitely overproduce it and make it too perfect that it's a nightmare and it makes it sterile.
Or you can use a little bit of everything. You can push it every way possible using the technology and doing it, everything you can do. I don't like to stretch things with Pro Tools or anything like that. I don't like that kind of cheating It's a lot faster. Bach: Yeah, yeah! Axl: It depends on the quality of the sound.
Bach: But it's like one of my favourite vocal moments is like Axl: But like, the whole auto tuning kinda thing Bach: It makes me sick! Hey I got a good - Wait. House music. So I was talking with Jimmy Iovine and he says - I love this story. He says he was with Bono back, you know, way back on I think it's Joshua Tree or whatever. So, Bono plays him some music and goes: "This is house music.
If you put that out, you can buy a house! Trunk: Axl, let me ask you something real quick, and we're gonna put a song. I wanted to ask you this: Tommy Stinson's still in the band right? Axl: Absolutely. Or did he do something on the record? On the GN'R record?
Axl: Not that I'm aware of. Axl: No, but we haven't crossed any path with them, other than that. Trunk: Oh ok. Axl: Well, we just have We worked with different people over time, on different ideas here and there, and then you've ended up keeping some of the same songs. But maybe you don't work with the person that you did something with a long time ago.
We did a lot of different things with, a lot of different guitar players so How many songs? It's been, you've been working on the record for, what has it been now? Is it that long? Or longer? Trunk: laughs On and off Axl: It's definitely on and off. Trunk: So, how many songs total exist?
Like, how much of a body material did you have to ultimately pull from this record? Was it like, 50 songs? You had to come up with the 10 that are going to make the record?
I mean, that's part of the process, you just Axl: That's kinda like everybody's thing, isn't it? But, there's a lot what we've kept. I mean, there is, there's 2 records that the majority of the music's done, and the majority of the vocals are done. And there's another half of a record that's being worked on. We were actually working on a song a little bit tonight that's not, even on the first two records. Bach: Cool!
I can remember when they were doing "Use Your Illusion" Axl: Well "Use Your Illusion" has got You know, there's a much longer I won't, there's a much longer story that And I'm not doing either of yours, unless we do mine, and we'll do mine last!
You know Trunk: How about the videos from those records man, for the Illusion records, I mean, those Bach: I got the best Guns N' Roses video, and you never seen it I don't know, I just, I like the filming of it, that whole aspect, but Trunk: Is there a favourite video that you've done? Like "Welcome To The Jungle"? Like that first Axl: Look, all I know is all I really wanted to do, this is dead serious.
Huh, what I really wanted to do for that and Bach: Ooooh My God! That's what Sweet Child was supposed to be about. Bach: Dude, I gotta mention, Del James gave me a copy, maybe he shouldn't have Axl: Oh, that's fine.
Bach: That's a good one. That's my favourite Guns N' Roses video. Trunk: What's going on in there? Bach: It's Axl: That's where I'm spanking Erin Everly I'm spanking Sweet Child so But it's all like, you know Axl: Yeah, but the messed up part of that is: you remember Earl, you know the security guy I had? Bach: Yeah, yeah. Axl: So, Earl is this big huge black guy you know, and we went to the Pleasure Chest to buy the bondage gear for the video.
But the guys behind the counter just seen me with this huge giant black guy and they think that You're one of us, it's cool! Thumbs up man! They were like just You rock dude! The very first time I heard Guns N' Roses.
Because, they had all these sweets, and all the WEA labels got together and showcased their new music, and I'll never forget, walking into the room, and the guy from Geffen bringing me over and saying: "This is a new band I want you to check out. They're called Guns N' Roses. I want to show you the video.
We released that thing 3 times. I remember seeing the Ritz in New York the first time. Axl: They were shoving it down. I tried to get you to do that with "Slave To The Grind", with the song. Bach: To what? I told you to keep releasing it until people finally go like: "Ok, we give up! Axl: Yeah, but I wanted him to release it again, and again. Bach: I like the way you're thinking!
Can I say something? So anyways we were on tour, I was about 17 years old, or 18 years old, and I was in a supermarket in, like, I don't know, Maryland or something, and I bought a Hit Parader magazine and I saw, I never heard of Guns N' Roses, just one picture, and your hair was completely teased, but on your pants you wrote: "Glam sucks!!
I go: "Who? Why does this guy have teased hair but he has Glam sucks! And in the supermarket you were messing with my head. Bach: But you did it first. Yeah, you guys were touring with The Cult. And no one really knew Guns N' Roses by the summer of '87 and these like bums walked onstage, and this guy walked up to the microphone and said: "You wanted the best?
Well they ain't here, this is Guns N' Roses! And Duff and West wrote this song like on acoustic, and it literally went like: singing country-like "I see your sister in a sunday dress A and Slash basically just starts raping the song and I ran up and started like, doing like the evil Iggy Pop over it, while West is standing there and his face is like drooping, like: "My song " Bach: "Look what they done to my song?
We just destroyed his song right there. Bach: How's West doing? Axl: Huh, he's not. Bach: No? Axl: West is no longer with us. Bach: Oh my lord Axl: So, maybe he's doing better. Bach: I remember hanging out, and drinking, and doing a bunch of stuff.
I also remember, remember when I punched Izzy's brother in the face cuz he called me a homo? Like, I didn't know who he was Axl: laughing I remember something like that And I sit there watching your gig, and some guy comes up to me.
I'm sitting there and he goes: "You're such a pretty boy, man! Look at you man! Look at you! Axl: Probably Joe. Bach: untelligible and they get me up against the wall. And they go: "Dude, that's Izzy's brother! Bach: Who was number one? Axl: N. A rap band.
I tried SO hard to make that happen and I mean, I wanted to do this. But I was trying to like, cuz I just wanted to take You know, and it's like I turned Izzy onto it and he was talking about that the other night.
Axl: Huuh He might show up for the shows or something, we'll see. I'm trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together. Axl: I don't know, I don't mean like being vague. I have no idea. Izzy does what Izzy does. I mean, it's like, you talk to Izzy one day and then you think hey we're gonna go over here to this record store but whatever.
The next day you find out he's in Trinidad you know He races like hardcore racing trucks in Baha. He does stuff like that, so Trunk: Where does he live? Axl: In L. Trunk: In L. Working in the records industry and how it happened, and now, here we are, whatever it is, almost 20 years later, and are you amazed at what that song has become? And the point is that you cannot turn on a live sporting event Axl: They play a lot of things, I mean Trunk: But that more than anything now man Axl: humming something untelligible Bach: Some young dude Axl: Fambla??
Bach: That's horrible! That's kinda like I cringe when I hear that at the sporting events. I cringe when they play a Great White song man I mean I'm like: "How can you play this band? Ian: They play "Rock Me" like every week.
Axl: I have the quintessential Great White story though. Bach: You do? Axl: I do. Ok, so Jack is doing all of these blow Baz' laughing Trunk: You guys had the same management at one point, didn't you? Axl: All these middle-eastern guys right. Ok, and he runs out of cash. Right, and he wants some more. So somehow he manages to catch a fly, right.
And he goes in the bathroom, he chops the fly in half and he puts it in a veil, an empty veil right. And then he comes out, and he puts like half a fly in front of these guys sitting there you know, it's no big deal.
He's got a straw, he pisses it off, he acts like he snorts this fucking half a fly There's half a fly up his nose right. So, they're like: "what are you doing? He goes: "It's this Afghanistan titsy fly you know and it's like, they'll annihilate you, and you'll be hallucinating all this stuff.
Right, so, then he gets the blow, this other guy snorts off half a fly and it gets stuck up in his nose. And Jack goes running down the street Jericho: How did he catch a fly? Was he Jack Miagi? Axl: I have no idea! Wax on, wax off. Bach singing Great White Trunk: Oh my god. You guys wanna play records or you got stories like this? Axl: I don't understand, a titsy fly. Bach: That's some goood fly dude!
Trunk: Oh my god. Alright, well we're gonna play, you wanna hear "Out On The Tiles" right? Bach: Yes! Trunk: Alright, we're gonna do that but I got a 3 minute break and then we'll come back and I promise you we'll play that. We're gonna go as long as we need to go so By the way, the Supergroup show May 21st on VH1. Scott Ian and Sebastian Trunk: laughs at 10 o'clock. And look for the GN'R record to come out in the fall and the tour to follow as Axl Rose is hanging out with us.
What have I gotta do? Buy you dinner for a life or what? We'll come right back Oh my god, hold on a second, we got a little problem with these commercials Eddie Trunk here. We are gonna go past our end time because Axl: ironically I've never done that before!
Trunk: You never got past ti I gotta paint that picture! Nassau Coliseum, , we're on stage, Doug Goldstein Trunk: Doug Goldstein is the manager, just for people listening right now. Axl: At the time. Bach: So I turn around, I'm ready to leave, we've done our set and he goes: "Keep going! What do you mean keep going? So we do a couple of Aerosmith songs,and we do "Youth Gone Wild" again, we actually did it twice in the set, I swear!
And I go: "What is going oooon? Axl: That was a mess. But that is another night that WASP saved the day. All these things went really bad and all of a sudden I put WASP on, I got fired up and stuff, starting jumping over all the furniture, and I went through the show Bach: laughs Are you serious?
I kinda got set up to got things go wrong. And why It didn't really have to do with Tom I guess, but The definition of cool. Axl: I find that very hard to believe. That's very unusual. Bach: It was like midnight. So anyways. Everybody's freaking out, and me and Mariah are walking down, we see all this commotion down on the hallway, right. Like, people jumping around, just going I go: "What is going on? Axl: I was afraid with the maelstrom male-strom , I wasn't sure where that was going Jericho: Male love!
Bach: So you got Stephanie on your hand, and you looked like bored, you were like whatever. And I go: "Dude! Where were you? Bach: Yeah that's what you said! You said: "I was taking a shower"! It's like, right on dude! Trunk: Scott, do you have any GN'R stories? You've been quite silent in this whole thing.
Ian: I'm just taking the whole thing in. Axl: We've never really crossed paths, though, did we? Ian: Not so much, I saw you guys a couple of times in the early days, those early Ritz shows. Axl: I met some of the guys in the band and stuff, you know. They were always really great so, and then Not the Ritz, there was a place, a smaller place Trunk: Cat Club? Bach: Cat Club?
Axl: No, no, not in the city. Like Dislike. Re: Ian: I remember in '86 when you guys played The Ritz Axl: We played with M. I just walked in there and Izzy looked up at me and he goes, "S. And that was that, like instant bond, and Slash was wearing an Anthrax shirt on stage and I couldn't believe it.
Someone: Super cool. Bach: That is the heaviest riff ever, by the way [humming a riff]. Axl: And Izzy turned me onto 2 Live Crew. Trunk: Interesting, interesting. And Jericho, anything you want to share? A Guns N' Roses story? Jericho: I actually have a bone to pick with Mr. Trunk: Oh come on, it's been going so well up to this point, dude!
Jericho: I have to say it, man, I have to say it. Trunk: Dude, if you blow this you are never coming in here again. So I saw Axl and the boys with the Cult in 87, then about a year later you guys came back.. Axl: Did I just hear "a boat"? Someone: What are you talking about? Hey Sebastian, help me out You were hanging out in the backstage area, like in the parking lot.
Axl: We were singing, "We want some Bach: Pool? Yeah, we wanted some vagina monologue. Someone: Right, we want some pussies but like kitty cats. I'll just come out and say it because I get beeped Axl: We wanted some smoke Jericho: So anyways, you were on a skateboard, you were skateboarding up and down the ramp and like like a total nerd fanboy, " Axl, can I have your autograph?
Jericho: And then you skated into the arena and you never came back and I was waiting! Jericho: I am still waiting! Jericho: My friends were like, "Dude, [? I've been waiting. Ian: The snorting just gave it away! Bach: It's like noon, you know, and I look like, you know, just walking death and stuff, it's like, "Time to try to go to sleep," I walk out of the hallway and there's Izzy playing frisbee with his dog in the hallway, like the dog's doing flips!
Axl: Yeah, but better than that, in Indiana he had this rig hooked up with like a parachute and a pulley and a tree - I don't know. He had, and the wind would catch the parachute, pull you up in the air, and then he would shoot his Uzi at stuff, you know.
It's something weird he had rigged up. We came to New York during the making of Use Your Illusions and his face was like just one big scab, it was all messed up, because he had got a brand new Beamer, M-something at the time, and then took a corn fielding and hit like a ditch in a culvert, right? And air bagged and everything, right?
So we get out here and then, like, we go meet WASP! That's what we did today [? Trunk: Do you want me to get Blackie Lawless on the phone because his ears got to be ringing. Axl: So anyway, we meet WASP and then Izzy leaves the room and then I tell the story about that and they go, "Whoa, because, man, I thought he had like the worst case of herpes I'd ever seen in my life!
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